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Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
24567
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Posted - 2017.01.22 12:34:59 -
[1] - Quote
Is there something written about how much people on planet earn monthly? ISK to planetary legal tender? I once heard that 1 ISK is a lot, but we pay for a Quafe with more than 1 ISK usually.
Some products prices from Jita:
0.1 m3 (100 L) Quafe = 224 ISK. 1 L = 2,24 ISK.
0.5 m3 (500 L) Dairy products = 170 ISK. 1 L = 0.34 ISK.
And now for something exported from planet:
0.38 m3 (380 L) Water = 570 ISK. 1 L = 1.5 ISK. (bottled? Icon looks like its bottled water)
So if a janitor makes 1000 ISK per month, he could buy:
446 L of Quafe or 2941 L of dairy products. Or 666 L of Water from planet across the New Eden. Sometimes those items are slightly cheaper.
I think that empires could use ISK for exchange of legal tender. And people in space could be paid normally with ISK. This could include Marines, Janitors, Scientists and all those Caldari Light Marines that are employed in space.
What do you think? Could ISK really a legal tender for everyone in space, normally exchanged for empire money and not actually with big difference?
And the Janitor? Would he be a healthy man drinking all this milk? 
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Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
24570
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Posted - 2017.01.22 13:37:01 -
[2] - Quote
Taking into accout that Janitors have to eat something, and it would be probably space food in space, I think they should be paid in ISK to buy stuff in stores in Jita.
Or could they eat corporate gruel and protein delicacies for a fraction of ISK daily and wash with corporate water recycled from urine? 
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Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
24576
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Posted - 2017.01.22 16:17:13 -
[3] - Quote
Teinyhr wrote:AFAIK ISK is space money. There are planetary currencies which are near worthless in comparison to ISK. Amamake credits for one are mentioned in the story "Khadrea", the exchange rate there was 6 million Amamake credits to 3,600 ISK.
And drawing from other stories, again as far as I know ISK can be traded to planetary currencies easily, I recall, bartenders in stations occasionally retiring after getting tiny tips (to them) from drunk Capsuleers.
These conversion rates speak nothing really about the value of things planetwise, because one bottle of Quafe could have been valued at 3K Amamake kredits. And people could have been paid with millions of Amamake kredits.
It only means how much 1 Amamake Kredit is to 1 ISK.
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Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
24648
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Posted - 2017.01.24 08:00:02 -
[4] - Quote
Tristan Valentina wrote:I would actually be very surprised if there is a direct conversion rate. ISK and for a greater extent the whole capsuleer market are completely independent of planetary economies. There would be very little need to exchange ISK for Planetary currency and doing so could easily crash a planets economy. If an infomorph needed planetary currency for something it would probably be more efficient to buy currency by volume then by converting it directly from ISK. As a thought you could probably even buy it in m3 units.
Just my thinking on the whole currency issue.
Well, what you think fits in general to the perception of planetary money by playerbase. I think the other currencies must be tied to the ISK because of people on planets that have to be paid in some way or another, and paying them in nature wouldnt be as easy as paying them real money. Walue of work have to be described to someone if he have to be employed, things he buy must be valued at some point. So imagining someone like Caldari businessman journeying from his planet palace to a space corporation office, involves in my imagination him paying for maintenance of his shuttle, paying for a dinner, paying for a journey in fact. Would he pay using ISK everywhere, and then his money would be exchanged for planetary money? Well, I think at some point it have to be exchanged and all those fees have to be based on value of work and trade goods.
Every part of a game helps to tell a story =ƒôò
Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him
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Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
24693
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Posted - 2017.01.25 09:26:38 -
[5] - Quote
There is one more thing about "measly". Its relative to earnings. Lets say some market trader makes 1 B daily. For him measly sum can be 1 B. For new capsuleer its a great sum, not measly. So for a commoner in office 1M ISK would be a big fortune if he would make even 5000 ISK monthly.
But then, we can have only poorly educated guesses here I think. What would only be a base of something to estimate, is value of common daily things you need to live. That is why I included all those figures for water and dairy and Quafe in beginning. To tie it to realities of market in New Eden (no matter how silly it can look). 
Every part of a game helps to tell a story =ƒôò
Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him
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Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
24694
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Posted - 2017.01.25 11:39:47 -
[6] - Quote
Yes, that is why I looked at it in slightly humorous manner.
But there is all we have, and while there are some really low prices sometimes, if we talk big volume trading, the prices have their average traded price on market. Its like you would go to a garage sale somewhere and pick up a really cheap, slightly used golden chandelier and everybody around would think its a shiny paint or some kind of cheap metal, but not real gold. Then you go to where gold is traded and everyone knows how much its worth.
That is why I used Jita prices.
As for some things having funny looking volumes, I dont think its a rule, but exception. Or a mistake. Or Damsel is really fat. 
Every part of a game helps to tell a story =ƒôò
Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him
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Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
24897
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Posted - 2017.01.30 09:02:59 -
[7] - Quote
Yebo Lakatosh wrote:Did read the posts in this thread, and I had the impression that one important detail is overlooked by the participants: the costs of launching something from a planet to space.
That is pretty enormous IRL. Water is heavy and takes a lot of volume compared to for example computers. One square meter of water is a lot cheaper than the same volume of microchips down on Earth, but this is not the case once on orbit. The amount of expensive fuel needed to take something out of a planet's gravity raises exponentially with it's mass. Not to mention that an astronaut will consume water every day, while computers and other equipment last for long.
There are some phenomena that suggests that it isn't entirely different in New Eden. Ships (and kinda' everything else) is built in space, from materials that are mined in space. And there is ice mining. The fact that it's a pretty lucrative business suggests that the vage of capsuleers using (at least) a million ISK worth of mining equipment is still the preferred option against launching freely available water to orbit from inhabited planets.
So I'd risk that products (especially heavy raw materials and liquids) in space cost maybe ~10 times more than down on planets, as the price includes either the expenses of a dangerous interstellar industry, or the price of launching to orbit.
disclaimer: I'm a new player who only read a fraction of EvE lore so far - my opinion is mostly based on RL space documentaries and Kerbal Space Program. Correct me if I'm missing important details.
While its so now with current technology levels on earth, it could be completely other situation in New Eden.
Ships are build by capsuleers in space because of convenience and efficiency, there are minerals in space basically, and Tritanium from Veldspar is mined in space and used just there, because its properties dont make it usefull in most atmospheres.
As for difference between value of things launched from planets, I see that its oly a POCO tax difference. Tax is taken when moving stuff both ways. It isnt big and is more about value of cargo, than volume and weight. So actually launching something isnt so expensive in New Eden and isnt really about volume and weight it seems. Of course when you make multiple launches of the same product many times, then its unefficient.
Every part of a game helps to tell a story =ƒôò
Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him
Osprey =ƒÜÇ
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Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
24980
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Posted - 2017.01.31 18:27:46 -
[8] - Quote
What about independent professionals? I think having money still helps, even when you are inside corporation that gives you all those things. Competition between employers and all of that. They could provide certain degrees of freedom by paying extra dosh for some vacations in domed station gardens, under the stars.
Every part of a game helps to tell a story =ƒôò
Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him
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Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
25030
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Posted - 2017.02.01 07:36:07 -
[9] - Quote
Are corporate scrips really a thing in Caldari State? Could you provide a source? In such case, system involving such scrips would take value of commodities still into consideration, so it would be effectively like paying with nature, but you get your nature only from this one particular employer if you dont exchange. So it would be unnecessarily complicated. I think this rather complex system of different scrips would be an unnecessary weight on employee and employed. Scrips would be harder to control for inflation, who can say how much scrips are worth - a company, and they were fighting. I think, that If economy would have be really efficient, the role of scrips would have to be diminished only to company stores, with outsiders controlling the relations between scrips and wage would be still fundamentally shown in unified legal tender, that could be exchanged to scrips, maybe with bonuses rewarding loyalty.
Every part of a game helps to tell a story =ƒôò
Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him
Osprey =ƒÜÇ
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Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
25032
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Posted - 2017.02.01 08:56:04 -
[10] - Quote
So now it all makes sense. But we still have an economy based on free market dont we? Where different legal tenders are exchanged for work and products. Corporation must sell something, and they have to use monetary system to do that. If they want to put it on market that is free, at least in interstellar sense, they will have to tie its currency to larger monetary system. Now, how much worth is Caldari citizen work In relation to capsuleer earnings? Probably as much as to facilitate him living a good life either he would work in space or on planet (when people could still move freely). Good can be relative description, but Caldari corporation would want to allow better living standards for their citizens than for example Gallente citizens have, because it would make Caldari Corporation citizens unhappy if their corporation would not care.
Every part of a game helps to tell a story =ƒôò
Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him
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Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
25034
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Posted - 2017.02.01 09:33:54 -
[11] - Quote
In all of that, I see Caldari corporation stations everywhere in space, not only in State terrritory, so I assume there is a lot of exchange to ISK too in those stations. When people from around the system meet in one place. And exchange for ISK would have to be facilitated in them, so far away from State territory. And Jita, Jita dwellers would need a common legal tender for real. Being so close to a definition of free interstellar market. Would be a lot easier to pay people with what you gain, without additional recalculations with currencies from around the whole New Eden. Where capsuleers meet with non capsuleers at least.
Every part of a game helps to tell a story =ƒôò
Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him
Osprey =ƒÜÇ
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Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
25036
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Posted - 2017.02.01 10:05:01 -
[12] - Quote
What about roadhouses and bars? Establishments inside stations where people have to be paid, but they are outside of the scrip system? I imagine there must be some law to make people come up with their own little businesses anywhere. If state is full of other non state controlled Stations, Caldari citizens could just seek work there. Lets not assume every Caldari is a slave.
Every part of a game helps to tell a story =ƒôò
Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him
Osprey =ƒÜÇ
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Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
25039
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Posted - 2017.02.01 11:02:44 -
[13] - Quote
So that is Caldari. I now consider Federation being closest to what you can know from for example current US economic system. With Minmatar economy working on the same principles. About easterness of Caldari, I see some similarities between Caldari and economy/society of Japan, but exagerater and combined with former system of scrips of the US mining companies.
Every part of a game helps to tell a story =ƒôò
Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him
Osprey =ƒÜÇ
GëíGïüGëí GÖÑ
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